Go to an Island Dove. You won't be missed. After the Bushies and the neo-cons suspended Habeas Corpus, embraced torture, and secret prisons, after Abu Gharib and Gitmo, after warrantless wiretaps and Mission Accomplished - to suggest that the Constitution is now that in jeopardy because someone who teaches classes on the Constitution will be President - is quite laughable.
I find it funny that the left believes that just because Bush was wrong, that it then makes Obama right. They are both liberals who want/did increase the government. Don't even try to make an argument that Bush is a conservative. Has any other president increased our governments size any larger than Bush? That isn't conservative, it's liberal. Both parties are fucking this country and too many on both sides are blinded by their own finger pointing.
INTRADE.com has been proven correct! Things are coming in line just as INTRADE predicted, that Obama will win this election Bigtime! My MO, NC and VA Obama shares are gonna hit 100% Thank ya Intrade!
---- Careful though, the right wing nuts will soon be saying it was an InTrade conspiracy that Obama got elected, ha ha :-)
If that really matters Obama is seen much more trusted and more able as a problem solver among foreign countries by large margin. USA does not need war leader.
everybody needs to stop saying that republicans are racist just because they arent voting for obama, im a republican and if Condoleezza Rice, who is both black and a woman, ran for president i would definately vote for her, so quit saying that republicans are racist
'A Republican', what these people do not seem to realize is that their presidential idol is a socialist/communist. So, by virtue of ignorant hate, they feel the reason the people that aren't voting for Obama are racist and not because they truly believe in The American Way.
I'm not against having a black president.. just NOT THIS black president.
All democrats will burn in hell. The lizards of satan will jump out of their Prius' gas tanks and devour them for breakfast. God meant for us to burn the remains of these lizards in our pickup trucks, not 'conserve' them in our Priuses.
I have a strongly held view about the best candidate. But that means nothing in comparison to how I feel about us all being here discussing the election with each other. Sure, it's aggressive sometimes, but we're all here because we care about the future of our nation. That makes me proud. And I believe that we, together, through social networks and informal discussion groups like this, will lead this great nation to unimaginable new heights. Thank you all.
If you cashed your economic stimulus check you engaged in american socialism. Reagan started "earned income credit", a weath sharing program. We just nationalised the banks to save capitalism. We already are a socialist/capitalist society, so blah blah to your misplaced 'scared red' assumtions.
I am an american soldier who has cast his vote for barrack obama. There are aot people out their claiming to be true americans but wouldn't take the time of day to give a fellow american a fighting chance. Imagine training for years to defend your country then being sent on a man hunt for a ghost. Billions spent and you have found nothing, the one threat you did find didn't have any of the weapons you were told he would have. You watch your friends get blown up all around you then home to the highest gas prices in america history, an entire american city under water and the government sitting on their hands, and ridiculous antics. 400+ million spent to tell people whether they were going to get a stimulus package. Billions to a failing Corporations who take vacations and we give them billions more. No child left behind, now are children learn the answers to standardized test using outdated textbooks. May we need something different. Then next time I am sent into harms way to watch my brothers in arms die I would like to know I am truly fighting for the american way of life, the american people. We were duped, who do you thinks sells us all the oil. and I have seen their weapons. Who do you think they bout them from.
Socialism: public funded works, right? The military, national parks, highways, police forces, BLM land, the Coast Guard - we have lots of socialism.
Capitalism: free markets for trading goods, right? We have an extraordinary free market economy - probably the best example of capitalism in history (admittedly, the economy has the flu right now, but it'll get better).
We have a shining example of a hybrid economy. We're not a superpower by accident; our parents and grandparents built this great system by thinking about it, debating it, and creating it.
Now it is our turn - keep this passion alive, study our nation's history, learn a bit more about economics, and keep getting involved in discussions like this.
sixromeo, I am an E7 in the USMC, I've been on the field in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and various other engagements. I am all about giving a fellow American a fighting chance, but not with the future of this country that I have bled for. Not to turn it into what we fought against for so many decades.
Having said that, if he is elected, my separation papers will be drawn by the time he's inaugurated.
True American, thank you for your service, although it is sad you will abandon the fight for OUR rights just because WE THE PEOPLE feel the need for a change in middle management ie: you work for the POTUS, he works for US. Thanks again for your service.
You are not true "Republicans" if you did not agree with what I said. If you are not burning the lizards of Satan your are going against the word of the lord. Accept the lord as your savior and be saved. As for all you 'traders' you are no different than the moneychangers that Jesus threw out of the temple -- nothing will save you.
Just because one is republican, doesn't mean he's racist..and just because one is a democrat, doesn't mean he's a communist. Everybody knew a year ago that the democrats would win. Doesn't matter if it's Obama or Clinton. No party in the history of the United State served 3 terms in a row, except for Reagan (2 terms) follow by Bush Sr.(1 term) (can someone validate this).
and yes America will adopt a European style government soon, where the government is everywhere, and it's about time. Look what happen to Wall Street, DO you really think that democrats and republicans will do nothing about it ? Capitalism is still alive and will stay alive for a very long time, we just need to put some rules in place. Good night everybody
'I am right' you say that republicans "abandon the fight for OUR rights", while the candidate you support wants to put many restrictions on the right to bear arms, which is a right as an american, and if they can take away that right what would stop them from taking away other rights from the people and giveing the government even more control, sounds a lot like communism
Not to turn it into what we fought against for so many decades. What does that mean? True American, indeed, so an Obama presidency will magically turn our country into a Islamic state?
Guys, its never about ideaology, its always about the money. Money changes handsthen you label it whatever you want and build "ideology", or fairytales for that matter, around it. NC is going red and 10K needs to come from 6%... can it mathematically happen? Gosh, I need a county map!
"Freedom cannot survive without arms in the hands of the citizens, anymore than it can survive without a Free Press. It seems to me that a segment of our society that makes so much fuss about First Amendment Rights would be well advised to take a long lo ok ahead and decide just who will protect those Rights if they are successful in their misguided efforts to undermine the Second Amendment." -David F. Norman
Bemused, My statement had nothing to do with Islam. IF you care to learn anything from history, we fought against the USSR (the Cold War) since before and after WWII. Joseph Stalin "nationalized" health care, energy, infrastructure, etc. Some of the same things Obama vows to "help" by making them government entities. And now we want this for US?
'A Republican', I refer to 'True American', not Republicans. Obama is not going to take guns away, stop being scared, no more poltics of fear, shut off your lizard brain. BTW- communist revolutionaries can't fight for socialism without guns.
True American, I'm aware of history, but your list of countries you fought in did not include any part of the Soviet Union. Maybe it's time you update your bogey man file--there are no communist countries, and never have been. Like the divine right of kings, communism was a justification for dictatorship.
What is it about healthcare. US citizens get less healthcare with more money than other western countries. Should that just mean that there are something really wrong.
'Giz' It means that pharmaceutical and insurances companies along with $200+K/yr are making a killing on the market. Super Obama will help out a bit but these guys have been going loco for a looong time.
Arent yall happy Mrs Palin is outta the pic for VP n 2012/16!!! That interview with the quebec gang was shameful... cashn out night night. Peace be with yall.
Palin can go back to Alaska n keep hunting more mooses for dinner or hang out with Joe the plummer for her new bff. hahahahahahaha, hahhahahahah, Damn she is so retarded.
Just for the record, IMHO Obamas win is not "The Black's" or "The African American's" win. Obama is a JD Summa Cum Laude from Harvard, son of an immigrant. No obvious slave heritage. Blacks can be proud but please dont over do it. Just like I may not be the typical mexican, Obama is not the typical brother. This win is a win of the new and imporved US of A. Enjoy. Come on already NC!!!
Come on 'Palin1012', Ob had a lot of money to spare, but George W f* it up for old old MacCain... dontya think? Then came Palin... and besides, the good ol USA has a different demographic mix... remember "its the economy st*pit" How bad is it that mexicas are sending money from Mexico to their families in the US!!! :) Money helped Ob but there is a LOT more to it.
Palin2012, just shut up and go joining with palin and keep hunting mooses with her maybe she will choose u to be her vp as well. GEt the fcking real already; you think American is going to vote Mss airhead for a president in 2012 are you that stupid or your mama dropped you when you were born? please, snap out of it already. Can you just look at the result of the election tonite and go getting some vodka for the nite already.
Ob can not change mankind's nature. All the greed, all the anger, all the fear, all the ignorance. Fantastic speech though! Go Bide!!! go Obama!!! Lets make the magic happen!!!
I can agree that Obama is one charismatic individual. No taking that away from him. He is also a learned individual. However, to claim Palin is stupid is taking it to an extreme. You can't honestly say that the media wasn't against Sarah Palin from the second she was announced as the VP candidate. Don't underestimate her... To do so would be at your own peril (speaking electorally that is).
As for McCain losing b/c of Bush, that's also a misnomer. The problem is that people love to blame the President b/c he's in the public spot light 24/7. However, the Congress is where things were problematic. Who authorized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy up all of those loans and then later prevented reforms to such authorization, which is what has created this mess in the first place?
Blame it on who you like, but with a super majority, if things are worse in 4 years than they are today, then who are you going to blame? Bush still? Maybe McCain? Or will you admit that your candidate (and his party) failed...and failed miserably?
I hope it doesn't happen, but I seriously believe it will.
Your personal attack only proves how uneducated you really are. Instead of attacking me, why don't you consider what your candidate actually is going to do. He'll sit down and talk 1 on 1 with a known terrorist (i.e., Iran's own Ahmadinejad). He'll raise taxes, regardless of what he claims (after all, look at his record). He also willingly sat in a church that had a pastor that espoused racist ideals, yet he didn't agree with them? Please, tell it to someone gullible. If you disagree with a leader, do you continue to follow that leader? No sane individual would.
Well, let's see what happens. Like I said, in 4 years, you can bet your bottom dollar that Obama's high price tag today will drop to sub Bush levels...and Palin's value will skyrocket. Mark it.
Yeah, Palin is dumb. She can't name a single national newspaper. All she has going for her are her good looks and now she also has the name recognition for the 2012 election. Given the deep economic shit that we're in now, it's not impossible that things will be worse than they are now in 4yrs regardless of who's in the white house. I hope that our new president can prevent that from happening but 4yrs may not be enough to fix 8 years of Bush's screw-ups.
Palin is not stupid relative to the average. But she was not careful and/or she was not coached well. She and her party payed for it. I agree that they wen too far with Palin. But then again, she needed to be quite superior or the best, not just above average. She was not. And that is a fact. She made an easy target during hunting season.
Old MacCain payed the bill for Bush. But the Bushes and their pals made enough money already so they didnt really care sho payed the bill :) I agree, Ob picks up the country in a very difficult situation. But he can always blame the guy before him. It was after all his watch. It is always difficult to blame legislatures, it is easy to point the finger to a building (capitol hill), but fact is, greed is the way America succeeds. And fails. Greed and arrogance.
Ob has a chance to bring the world together (remember a lot of those investors were in fact foreigners).
It's about time that a President didn't act like a child when it's time for diplomacy. Giving someone the "silent treatement" is juvenile and has no place in an era of intellectual enlightenment.
It is quite myopic and juvenile to STILL cling to such proven inferior policy as "don't talk to terrorists."
And a big fat "whatever" to the rest of what you just wrote, Palin2012. I see you've been getting your Fox "News" in. Your support of such an unqualified candidate speaks volumes about YOUR ignorance...
Actually, check your sources. Republicans tend to be smarter than their Democratics contemporaries. Don't believe me, look it up. Look at the GOP entry in Wikipedia. Or try reading.
I can agree with you on part of your post. Palin did not come across as the PERFECT VP candidate...and McCain seriously needed his VP candidate to do exactly that.
As for the argument that it took 8 years to get us into this mess, you're wrong. It took us over 10 years. Remember, the economic problems we are dealing with today started early on during the Clinton administration...BEFORE the Republicans took over Congress. So...to claim that Bush did this is short-sighted and lacks real critical thinking.
Funny though how historians polled as recently as 2 months ago rated Bush43 as one of the top 10 US Presidents of all time (he ranked 10th).
could someone beats Palin2012 with a roomstick so the betch can snap out of it. The reason you dumb republicans lost tonite because all those nonsense brainwatched terrist sh*t and and joe the plummer crabs and here you are still talking about dumbsht. Are you on crack. your mama real dropped you when you were born. it must hit hard in the head.
I always remember... "if you are not an idealist (be it liberal or socialist) when young, you have no heart. if you are not a conservative when old, you have no brain". I have to agree with you, P2012, the left is generally about ideals and sentiments not pragmatism or logic. Dems did their homework and played good demgraphics against old old anachronic republicans. Sorry, but look at the map up there.
My only dissagreement with you is that you pointed "money" as the cause, as if all of this could be bought with daddy's checkbook. If you want to talk money, I believe Bushs pals have lots more money than Obama can ever think of.
So Reagan bombing Momar Kadafi was a mistake? Standing up to Gorbachev and demanding that the Soviet Union tear down the Berlin wall was a mistake? Come on...you can't talk to someone who doesn't want to talk to you b/c they'd rather kill you instead. Be realistic for a moment.
When you actually can learn to speak in a remotely educated manner, I'll gladly respond to you. Until that happens, I will no longer respond to your pathetic attempts at personal attacks. BTW, I'll happily keep my shotguns and revolvers fully loaded. And I welcome Obama's attempt to try and take them away.
In the mean time, you'd think that Obama supporters would be happy and wouldn't bother continuing to attack their foes that lost. Last I checked, Obama won. Why continue to attack Republicans? Oh...that's right...lack of education on your part. Got it. Nevermind.
As I said, when you talk sensibly, I'll be happy to reply...until then...get an education.
Well stated. When I talked about money buying this election, I meant that it was so one sided in who could raise money. After all, I'd have honestly been shocked if McCain won simply because of the difference in the amount of funds raised by the two candidates.
What I would like to see is true campaign reform: allow equal money to all candidates from all parties. No private fund raising. No public fund raising. Just split the pool overall and leave it to who can run the best campaign best. That way, money is no longer a factor.
As a son of foreigners, I too know what and how the US can influence other countries. In some cases, it's a good thing. In others, it's horrible. What is most baffling is how we pick and choose where to help and what areas to ignore.
But here's a question: Why is Hollywood trying to raise money to help Darfur when that money could be better spent helping people here get jobs, healthcare, etc.??? So, is Hollywood merely out of touch, or is America simply ignoring those in need?
Yeah, your [lack of] education is telling. You really are a LOSER, but hey, that's because you're far looser at the lips. Congrats on showing us your true colors. :D
"campaign reform" ... there you go... those are good issues... and that is why we all have representatives to call and bug 365 days a year :) I do not believe it is the office of The President who has to deal with that. But it wouldn't hurt if he pushed it a bit :)
I am not a republican and I love my guns. I don't shoot anyone nor I own automatic weapons. Shooting as a sport not the craziness that DOES exist in the US.
Problem with conservatives and republicans is that change happened out there, they just ignored the memo :) The US is a country of institutions and check and balances, it is very difficult for anyone to change things for the worst by him(her)self.
Obama will do good if and only if the average american, be it a plumber or a neonazi, does good. And the US of A will do well when that neonazi or NRA member or average Joe goes to college and understands the world.
Hollywood IS out of touch with reality. They live in Disneyland or even better, in Bel Air :) Private citizens can give ther money to whomever they want. Obama will make sure they help the U.S. keeping them in check. But lets talk money. Money come to hollywood from abroad. Some of it goes to Dafur or to adopt babies from 3rd world countries. I think it is only fair. I say Hollywood and other corporations should give more money back to foreign countries :)
As for education or health reform, the system has to be fixed and the rules need to be changed, sometimes it is not about money, it is about ideas, strategy and will.
Well said. I'm not into using my guns for anything except hunting and self-protection. I do not advocate violence, and only engage in it when all other options have been exhausted.
As for the President, it will be interesting to see where Obama takes this country in terms of relationships with other nations.
I don't see anything wrong with healthcare per se. After all, all hospitals MUST treat anyone and everyone, whether they are citizens or not, whether they have insurance or not.
Simply put, if you want healthcare, you CAN get it. You can purchase insurance (if your employer doesn't supply it). It's a matter of choice. After all, if Universal healthcare was the answer, we wouldn't see so many Canadians (let alone other foreigners) coming to the US to have their surgeries, treatments, etc.
As for education, that is a different animal, in my view. Public schools have gotten a bad rap because...well...inner cities generally do poorly while suburban public schools do far better. So, the question will be...what do you do? Force suburban schools into accepting urban students? How will those students get there? Obviously paying inner city teachers more money has NOT produced better educated students.
My solution on education? This is where Europe does a better job. Make the school system a year round style. However, transform the system so it operates more like colleges and universities. Allow parents and students to decide what classes to take, when, etc. If a student in 1st grade excels at math, why hold him/her back???
As such, I'd compromise by combining that two ideas: year-round school with choices. How do we do it? Make schools (like colleges and universities do currently) compete for the students. If you want parents to send their kids to your school, give them a reason. This way, kids don't experience the normal drop off in transitioning between one grade to the next.
As for Hollywood and paying back those foreign investors...why? They made their money by investing here in the first place. If I invest in Grupe, S.A. de C.V., and its stock goes up, then I have made money. I need not require Mexicans nor Mexico to pay me on top of that.
Ah well...it's getting late and time for me to go to bed. Have a long day ahead of me (9am to 7pm). Well...good night...and God bless.
Palin2012, shut the fck up. stop talking you dumb fck. go and sit on a beer bottle so you can feel better. you think you people are smart yet you damn republicans fcked this country for the last 8yrs and elected a most dumbass republican president ever. can u wake up and smell my ass and do a reality ck already. gosh go stick your head into a cow ass already. good nite betch. should i get you a trailer and keep you there for the next 8yrs. Get over it and deal with it, you dumb palin suppoter. lmfao
Ahhh, the myth of the Canadian healthcare refugee lives on. You wouldn't see them because they don't really exist. On the other hand, Americans actually do go to Canada because the retail cost for medical care in Canada is far less than what an uninsured or underinsured person would have to pay in the U.S.
Canada has really good heathcare so people dont come from there to here.Also they have less people there so less people come. and canadians never come here its only rich weirdos and people with cancer who cant wait in the emergency room for 3 hours.
I have family in Canada and they always complain how they can't get an appt. with a specialist for weeks, sometimes months. I think that needs to improve. So what happens with NC, IN and MO now? Will those electoral votes be included in the final results bringing the numbers to 364/174 or was the race too close in those states?
Yes we do wait sometimes to see a specialist in Canada. I have live in many countries and health care is always a difficult thing to manage because of complexity and expenses. Every country must find its own compromise between cost and inclusiveness to fit their collective needs (and conscience). The problem with the US system as I see it is that it has got very high cost and very poor inclusiveness... In this respect it is rather poor.
Obama is now President elect. Support him. If you don't, you are neither a 'True American(tm)', nor a patriot. As we have so often heard in the Bush years.
Unfortunately most Republicans will wait for him to fail instead of helping him succeed. If something doesn't work once he takes the office, blame the black guy. I can already see it.
Now we will see about the socialism and the redistribution of wealth and all that other ultra-right crap that McCain-Palin have dumped on Obama, just because he wants the upper 5% to pay a little more tax. Ridiculous! Palin especially is so ignorant she wouldn't recognize socialism if it hit her in the face. But that is their game plan, to scare the living daylights out of people, and try to make everyone else as ignorant as they are. Thank God they lost. I am counting the days until Bush the Ignoramus in Chief is gone too. The thing is, some of the very wealthy realize they should pay a little more, like Warren Buffett who once said that he pays a lower percentage than his secretary. Now how is that right? If McCain has a plan, let him go back to congress and introduce it. If he knows how to "get bin Laden," let him tell Obama and the commanders already.
WOW! There surely is a lot of scary stuff in these posts: vituperation, foul language, intolerance, closed mindedness, and just plain hate - the worst of it (except for btknows) from the supposedly intelligent and soft hearted liberals. All very scary, but the scariest is how truly uninformed the posters are and how uneducated: few can spell, use language and grammar correctly, or punctuate a sentence. Poles apart from each other in their views, each one is convinced he/she is right. But how can that be? America needn't fear McCain, Obama, or the current Administration. Its biggest threat is its uninformed and irrational populace which has to descend to craziness and gutter language to make its point. I see that the market likes the election results so well that it's down close to 500 points. On the bright side, Michelle gets to be proud of her country for the second time in her life. Sorry, I couldn't resist that, since we're all so patriotic all of a sudden.)
That was a very well articulated posting brought to us by Just Visiting. I am in complete agreement. However, I deeply wish people would stop associating the word liberal with democrats. A liberal is someone whom supports liberty, i.e. personal freedom. Therefore, a democrat is not a liberal for they have always sought regulation alongside tax and spend policies.
Exactly! Democrats are liberal as it applies to civil liberties as they define them and to taxing and spending to support their (liberal) social welfare programs. And yes, they do want to regulate public and business institutions such as corporations, law and order agencies, and gov't in order to further those liberal programs. I would question, however, whether those social programs when taken to extremes don't actually rob us of our liberty. In the end, the term is used as it's come to be defined in order to avoid misunderstanding and to ease communication.
You are correct in all aspects of your analysis, including the fact that this definition is now widely accepted and even formal. However, this is the very fact that I am outraged by. Our media has taken a word that has meant; as to and pertaining to freedom for all it's existence and in an Orwellian fashion redefined it into a term describing a democrat. Can you say Newspeak?
There are articulate and inarticulate voices who speak from every political ideology. Neither "Conservatives" nor "Liberals" can lay claim to freedom from ignorance, intolerance or idealogue. Using "liberal" and "conservative" as political pejoratives has become so commonplace as to render these labels meaningless. In a larger sense, Americans are all liberals since we all ascribe to the "liberal" political ideals of representative government, individual liberties, and economic opportunity. It will not be easy, but I am hopeful that we might remember that we all want these same things, and that Obama's presidency will encourage Democrats, Republicans and Independents to find ways to work together, rather than simply engage in the divisive politics of the past eight or more years.
I'm afraid you have made an error in your analysis. Americans may (and I stress may) all want the same thing, but it is very obvious that they don't agree on how to pursue these common goals, if they exist. In addition, we are certainly not "all" liberals. I will slow it down for those of us having trouble keeping up! Liberal in its truest sense is something that is pertaining to FREEDOM. Anyone whom supports any type of perpetual welfare system that by it's very nature requires a central agency for confiscation and redistribution is not a LIBERAL!!!
I am sick of people laying the blame for partisanship at the feet of GW Bush. It takes two to work together and only one to be divisive. From what I've seen, the democrats take at least as much blame for partisanship?
Um, maybe for the last 2 years. But before that, lest we all forget, the GOP had the president and congress and was able to move forward with REPUBLICAN plans. It had broken the Democratic party, remember? We were all to be treated to a glorious Republican 21st Century? Well, those plans turned sour fast. Sorry, you can't blame the dems for more than 25%.
This discussion has gotten interesting.... If one looks back thru history, it will be obvious very quickly that every time the Democrats were in the majority in congress, they froze Republicans out of the process. Compare their record in that regard to that of the Republicans when they were in power. They weren't perfect, but their record is considerably better. The responsibility for the resultant climate of today lies at the Democrats' feet. I wish that would change, but I don't think it will. The Democrats seem to feel that they somehow are entitled to be in power all the time and become outraged when they're not. The virulence of that outrage can be traced back to the Wellstone funeral, though the roots reach further back.
Wow, Just Visiting, that is the most delusional, unfounded piece of drivel I have ready in a long time. You make an outlandish sweeping statement like that with zero proof. I'd be intrigued to see you back that up with anything remotely like evidence.
Ad hominem attacks don't solve anything. They just feed the virulence I decried. If you're intersted in proof, look it up yourself. It is your job alone to keep yourself informed, not mune or anyone else's. All you have to do is Google congressional records on both sides and analytical articles based on summations of those records. Ditto for the facts of what went on at the Wellstone funeral. I assume you can figure out what the keywords might be. In the meantime, chill.
@Just Visiting: You complained about the foul language and the intolerance in this thread. Kindly take a look at the following article and the the comments below (mainly from disgruntled republicans): http://townhall.com/columnists/DavidLimbaugh/2008/11/04/sorry,_but_obama_scares_me?page=full&comments=true#comments
How can any sane person conclude that it is the Democrats who shut out the Republicans? Not only did the Bush administration not even bother to listen to Democrats, they were arrogant about their ability to rule alone and their ability to tell any lie they wanted and people would still believe it. They even sent their moronic trolls out to talk about "tree huggers" and "tin foil hats" and stuff like that. The smugness that Rovian lies would triumph forever was palpable. They were actually proud that it took a slimer-liar to win elections for them, because they had found the perfect slimer-liar and they paid him well to cook up crapola.
Their arrogance about being able to bamboozle the less informed voters into voting against their own best interests, THAT is a real stomach turner. It was joke to them that they were able to use people's faith against them by twisting the truth about opponents and pretending that they are the only ones with God on speed dial and vice versa.
And that family values crapola...at the same time they ran candidates who dumped wives for younger models and who tried to punch their own fathers they were pretending that they were the ones who value families (at the same time they sent sons and daughters to risk their lies in a war based on lies.
Let's hope that voters are now too sophisticated to fall for that kind of baloney.
If Republicans are worried now about what to do to reclaim their decency, I'll be very surprised. Their real problem is that their jig is up.
What must Bridget McCain think when she sees her father embracing on a public stage the man who slimed her? Turns out she googled her own name and found THAT particular ugly scenario. And what must she think nowadays at the efforts of her father's campaign to slime a black candidate? Family vaues, indeed!
Moo— I took your advice and read the article you cited, along with the first 20 posts (no time for more than that – I do have to get some work done) and I can offer 2 observations. If you read all my posts, you saw that I decried extremism and lack of civility no matter the source or the political philosophy behind them. Secondly, the great majority of those first 20 posts were civil and generally thoughtful statements, though most were based on incomplete information. Many were critical of Republicans as well as Democrats, none were backbiting, vicious, or plain upchucks of venom as are the earlier posts on this Intrade site. Reply #1 was pretty darn gracious in view of the feelings of the poster. I have no reason to believe that these first 20 are not representative of them all. As for MJGPTBG’s post (#337), it is so full of misconceptions (and I’d bet s/he knows it) that it would take all day to sort out. None of the content is supportable by documentation, and the manner in which it’s said makes my argument for me. Ergo, my job here is done, and my visit is, too. May whatever Force you believe in be with you and with the USA.
I guess you won't be reading this since you're done with this thread and you need to get some work done but you talk about statements based on incomplete information while you read only 20 comments (out of over 600). I do agree that Reply #1 was very civil even if the argument contained within it doesn't hold any water.
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I just found this site after hearing them speak about it on CNN, commenting on the Oscar pedictions. Pretty cool site.
As far as the election is concerned, I'm just glad that the Conservatives lost. They controlled it all for nearly 8 years and have managed to run the entire country into the ground. So much much for "trickle down" economics and "might makes right". Many of the people that voted for "W" twice are now losing their jobs and potentially their homes. Those flag wavers and cross burners are getting exactly what they deserve!
Everyone needs to check out the HBO special this month called "The rightwing feeling wronged". It shows the true nature of right wing middle America. Pretty shocking to say the least!
The magical night was SO magical, shamanic I'd say, with intrade help. I knew of intrade because, in our profession, on predictor markets there is a precise theory and a lot of experience, showing that it works better than alternatives (namely polls), provided it has critical mass (this is why one should look carefully at "volumes" in our market transactions here). On the basis of the CORRECT (perhaps one of the best, I don't know) definition of "swing states" given day before by intrade, I had a frame (a classification of States) where to put all the results. I knew Obama won a few hours before the semi-official CNN declaration. Only 1 h, before CNN, Italian Agency ANSA made the first worldwide "outing" (just because its Director was a former US correspondent, and knew about). I knew it already a couple of hours before ANSA, with a min. margin of uncertainty, thet quickly faded away. I never enjoyed, in decades, a US electoral night as this one. Thanks intrade and Obama ...
#347 Mr. Magoo vomited: "As far as the election is concerned, I'm just glad that the Conservatives lost. They controlled it all for nearly 8 years and have managed to run the entire country into the ground. So much much for "trickle down" economics and "might makes right". Many of the people that voted for "W" twice are now losing their jobs and potentially their homes. Those flag wavers and cross burners are getting exactly what they deserve!"
Magoo - did your mother drop you on your head to make you so unforgivably stupid and bigoted? It is one thing to be misinformed, but you have a malignancy in your soul that makes you unworthy of oxygen. Does it bother you to know that President Bush gave far more aid to Africa than any previous administration including those of democrats? That he kept your dumb ass from being killed by a terrorist for eight years? That he inherited a recession, but kept you employed for most of that eight years? That he put the needs of his country before his desire to be popular - unlike the man he replaced? If you had a quintilla of decency in your greasy liberal body, you would at least acknowledge that you are a clueless idiot if not outright evil. Get on your knees and beg conservatives to forgive you before your blundering hero puts them all in concentration camps for daring to think for themselves and not depend on a government handout.
I'm not "Maggo" or "Magoo" but for all your critiques, sir, your post is equally hateful and misinformed.
Your views come from a stilted perception that national security and personal safety supercedes all other foundations our country is built upon. Benjamin Franklin once said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Taking an iron fist toward domestic and foreign policy is NOT admirable - these are NOT the principles our founding fathers embraced. Being popular is not part of the job description to be President, but Bush defied the very tenets of our Constitution through his "security" measures - and that IS the job description. To sacrifice those values and put those moves under the guise of "patriotic" is treasonous, at best. By virtue of "securing" our country, we have destroyed the ideals that make us what we are! It surprises me that conservatives/traditionalists only want to cite the Constitution when it serves their motives at the time.
As for Bush and Africa, it is true that he broke records in terms of amounts of money. But does money solve the problem if it's spent unwisely? Our programs in Africa shifted from a pragmatic "control the epidemic with condoms" to the unrealistic "abstinence only." Not only is unreleastic, but it gives creedence to the African tribal remedies that preach against condom use. And at the end of it - have we seen any drop in the AIDS epidemic? No. Not only did Bush's faith-based programs stop promoting condoms, but actually decreased condom availability. As an American you may think it's common sense and people would use them anyway, but in Africa tall tales still win out - people grow up believing that washing yourself with Coca-cola or hanging upside-down will prevent you from being infected. Neither abstinence nor condoms will kill the myths, but at least condoms will protect those who do engage in relations (which is a majority of people, after all).
P.S. And if liberals are so dependent on "government handouts" then why are they the political ideology that has the highest average income?
P.P.S. Still waiting on those concentration camps...
>>Posted 12:02 PM EST on 11/05/2008 168.friarphuk said : >> >> Obama is now President elect. Support him. If you don't, you are neither a 'True >>American(tm)', nor a patriot. As we have so often heard in the Bush years. >> >>So there. The tides just turned.
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa How is that hope and change working out for you?
Freedom126, if you feel that you would be willing to give up more of your taxes to Haiti then donate more money. But do not tell me that I have to pay more taxes for Haiti. No, it is not your place to be dictating a tax to me because it makes you feel good. The bext type of donation is the private one. The one done without government strong arming everyone. I gave $100 to Haiti because I wanted to. That is the way it should be. Government stay out of my life please!
we have one but problems still lie ahead for all of us dont take anything light for now all is well but we all know the results from well things dem go forward reform
356 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 356 of 356IraqVet said :
We will miss you Dove.
Barry Nolan said :
Go to an Island Dove. You won't be missed. After the Bushies and the neo-cons suspended Habeas Corpus, embraced torture, and secret prisons, after Abu Gharib and Gitmo, after warrantless wiretaps and Mission Accomplished - to suggest that the Constitution is now that in jeopardy because someone who teaches classes on the Constitution will be President - is quite laughable.
BBB said :
Bob Barr is at the Mia Ohio/Buff game!
Todd said :
SportsTradingChatter.com - LIVE chat pit - Sports and Politics
Richard Freedom said :
You are the Man Mr. Barry Nolan!!
jayhawkfan said :
I'm starting to think Virginia is going to go to McCain. Anyone agree with me?
mmmmhmm said :
nope. its going to OBAMA/BIDEN
Todd said :
Live political chat - Chat in real time - Politics tonight!
SportsTradingChatter.com
d-bo said :
This might be close
the canuck said :
SportsTradingChatter.com - LIVE chat pit - Sports and Politics
decent site check it out
Tired of boh sides said :
I find it funny that the left believes that just because Bush was wrong, that it then makes Obama right. They are both liberals who want/did increase the government. Don't even try to make an argument that Bush is a conservative. Has any other president increased our governments size any larger than Bush? That isn't conservative, it's liberal. Both parties are fucking this country and too many on both sides are blinded by their own finger pointing.
Todd said :
Why chat in a forum when you can chat live???
DEDICATED politics chat pit - free to use - sign up verify email address. Tons of traders already.
SportsTradingChatter.com
IraqVet said :
Will the sports betting trolls please go away?
Todd said :
SportsTradingChatter.com - Live Java chat pit for all to use - Politics pit
greggmorton said :
I think it might be a surprising outcome.
McCain '08
dex said :
# ab -n 4048 -c 1024 http://www.sportstradingchatter.com/forums/?stop-spamming-intrade-fuckface
that'll shut them up for a little while
ObamaWillWin said :
INTRADE.com has been proven correct! Things are coming in line just as INTRADE predicted, that Obama will win this election Bigtime! My MO, NC and VA Obama shares are gonna hit 100% Thank ya Intrade!
---- Careful though, the right wing nuts will soon be saying it was an InTrade conspiracy that Obama got elected, ha ha :-)
Dove said :
I have a feeling there aare several someones who never heard :those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Ba-rock said :
Live politics chat pit @ SportsTradingChatter.com
PancakeRodeo said :
Nader!!
greggmorton said :
surprising in that obama will get 375
do like dex said :
dex said :
For anyone with a Unix/Linux box:
# ab -n 4048 -c 1024 http://www.sportstradingchatter.com/forums/?stop-spamming-intrade-fuckface
that'll shut them up for a little while
ferozco54 said :
the wave of change its beginnig to flow and the consequences of this election are bigger than we see now
Todd said :
SportsTradingChatter.com - Live Politics Chat pit
god bless america. not that i believe in god anyway. :). finally, a president i can look up to. said :
god bless america. not that i believe in god anyway. :). finally, a president i can look up to.
shtfool said :
I am ashamed to be an american.
texas.female said :
why is everyone calling obama a "black" person when clearly his mother,hence his official race, is white? am i missing something?
shtfool said :
feel free to leave.
xox said :
If that really matters Obama is seen much more trusted and more able as a problem solver among foreign countries by large margin. USA does not need war leader.
shtfool said :
white people are sooo dumb...race traders. night night USA. we will be South Canada by next year,
Todd said :
Live Politics chat at SportsTradingChatter.com
xiao xiong said :
It's gonna be an OBAMASLIDE @ 375 EV's
cherry said :
la la al
OBAMA
jiim777 said :
The best election coverage is on intrade! Obama still has money to pay lawyers so he should win even if McCain clings on ;)
cable_man said :
370 = Can you say mandate?? obama BABY!
Luke said :
The graph for Indiana calls it for Red - but the map calls it for Blue - is that a bug in the website?
Todd's Nemesis said :
Come on 370 and Todd pls go away your Spam is not welcome on this momentous occasion. You go to your live chat noone here wants to talk with you
mlwsoundz said :
Negativity always loses!
SHTFOOL said :
Yes, please leave america - we no longer need your racist republican bullshit
True American said :
Outstanding, the communists seem to be winning.. R.I.P. Stars and Bars.
thewhyisthewhat said :
It feels great to make history!
A Republican said :
everybody needs to stop saying that republicans are racist just because they arent voting for obama, im a republican and if Condoleezza Rice, who is both black and a woman, ran for president i would definately vote for her, so quit saying that republicans are racist
True American said :
'A Republican', what these people do not seem to realize is that their presidential idol is a socialist/communist. So, by virtue of ignorant hate, they feel the reason the people that aren't voting for Obama are racist and not because they truly believe in The American Way.
I'm not against having a black president.. just NOT THIS black president.
JesusSavesRepublicans said :
All democrats will burn in hell. The lizards of satan will jump out of their Prius' gas tanks and devour them for breakfast. God meant for us to burn the remains of these lizards in our pickup trucks, not 'conserve' them in our Priuses.
True American said :
JesusSavesRepublicans, thanks for completely invalidating my point. Dope.
Todd said :
SportsTradingChatter.com - Live politics chat pit
A Republican said :
'True American', Very nicely put
Bob said :
I have a strongly held view about the best candidate. But that means nothing in comparison to how I feel about us all being here discussing the election with each other. Sure, it's aggressive sometimes, but we're all here because we care about the future of our nation. That makes me proud. And I believe that we, together, through social networks and informal discussion groups like this, will lead this great nation to unimaginable new heights. Thank you all.
A Republican said :
'Jesussavesrepublicans', its people like you that make people think that republicans are bad
Phil said :
So long Republicans... don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
I am right said :
If you cashed your economic stimulus check you engaged in american socialism. Reagan started "earned income credit", a weath sharing program. We just nationalised the banks to save capitalism. We already are a socialist/capitalist society, so blah blah to your misplaced 'scared red' assumtions.
Todd said :
SportsTradingChatter.com LIVE POLITICS chat!
sixromeo said :
I am an american soldier who has cast his vote for barrack obama. There are aot people out their claiming to be true americans but wouldn't take the time of day to give a fellow american a fighting chance. Imagine training for years to defend your country then being sent on a man hunt for a ghost. Billions spent and you have found nothing, the one threat you did find didn't have any of the weapons you were told he would have. You watch your friends get blown up all around you then home to the highest gas prices in america history, an entire american city under water and the government sitting on their hands, and ridiculous antics. 400+ million spent to tell people whether they were going to get a stimulus package. Billions to a failing Corporations who take vacations and we give them billions more. No child left behind, now are children learn the answers to standardized test using outdated textbooks. May we need something different. Then next time I am sent into harms way to watch my brothers in arms die I would like to know I am truly fighting for the american way of life, the american people. We were duped, who do you thinks sells us all the oil. and I have seen their weapons. Who do you think they bout them from.
I am right said :
sixromeo, thank you for your service. You are a true 'True American'.
Rocinante said :
Socialism: public funded works, right? The military, national parks, highways, police forces, BLM land, the Coast Guard - we have lots of socialism.
Capitalism: free markets for trading goods, right? We have an extraordinary free market economy - probably the best example of capitalism in history (admittedly, the economy has the flu right now, but it'll get better).
We have a shining example of a hybrid economy. We're not a superpower by accident; our parents and grandparents built this great system by thinking about it, debating it, and creating it.
Now it is our turn - keep this passion alive, study our nation's history, learn a bit more about economics, and keep getting involved in discussions like this.
Todd said :
Live Sports/Politics chat - SportsTradingChatter.com
True American said :
sixromeo, I am an E7 in the USMC, I've been on the field in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and various other engagements. I am all about giving a fellow American a fighting chance, but not with the future of this country that I have bled for. Not to turn it into what we fought against for so many decades.
Having said that, if he is elected, my separation papers will be drawn by the time he's inaugurated.
I am right said :
True American, thank you for your service, although it is sad you will abandon the fight for OUR rights just because WE THE PEOPLE feel the need for a change in middle management ie: you work for the POTUS, he works for US. Thanks again for your service.
JesusSavesRepublicans said :
You are not true "Republicans" if you did not agree with what I said.
If you are not burning the lizards of Satan your are going against the word of the lord. Accept the lord as your savior and be saved. As for all you 'traders' you are no different than the moneychangers that Jesus threw out of the temple -- nothing will save you.
Mexicano said :
NC 6% to go 9% Partial... will it rebound? 10K in that 6%+ ???
pancakerodeo said :
Racists
LIO said :
Just because one is republican, doesn't mean he's racist..and just because one is a democrat, doesn't mean he's a communist. Everybody knew a year ago that the democrats would win. Doesn't matter if it's Obama or Clinton. No party in the history of the United State served 3 terms in a row, except for Reagan (2 terms) follow by Bush Sr.(1 term) (can someone validate this).
and yes America will adopt a European style government soon, where the government is everywhere, and it's about time. Look what happen to Wall Street, DO you really think that democrats and republicans will do nothing about it ? Capitalism is still alive and will stay alive for a very long time, we just need to put some rules in place. Good night everybody
A Republican said :
'I am right' you say that republicans "abandon the fight for OUR rights", while the candidate you support wants to put many restrictions on the right to bear arms, which is a right as an american, and if they can take away that right what would stop them from taking away other rights from the people and giveing the government even more control, sounds a lot like communism
Bemused said :
Not to turn it into what we fought against for so many decades.
What does that mean? True American, indeed, so an Obama presidency will magically turn our country into a Islamic state?
Mexicano said :
Guys, its never about ideaology, its always about the money. Money changes handsthen you label it whatever you want and build "ideology", or fairytales for that matter, around it. NC is going red and 10K needs to come from 6%... can it mathematically happen?
Gosh, I need a county map!
True American said :
"Freedom cannot survive without arms in the hands of the citizens, anymore than it can survive without a Free Press. It seems to me that a segment of our society that makes so much fuss about First Amendment Rights would be well advised to take a long lo ok ahead and decide just who will protect those Rights if they are successful in their misguided efforts to undermine the Second Amendment."
-David F. Norman
Mexicano said :
ABC just rebounded NC 50-50... !!!
Todd said :
Live chat - SportsTradingChatter.com
bbb said :
cnn just called it for obama
True American said :
Bemused,
My statement had nothing to do with Islam. IF you care to learn anything from history, we fought against the USSR (the Cold War) since before and after WWII. Joseph Stalin "nationalized" health care, energy, infrastructure, etc. Some of the same things Obama vows to "help" by making them government entities. And now we want this for US?
Mexicano said :
Obama won long time ago. Now make money on NC
Somehow ABC is keeping it 50-50 at 90% while NC Gov has a 13K spread at 88%
I am right said :
'A Republican', I refer to 'True American', not Republicans. Obama is not going to take guns away, stop being scared, no more poltics of fear, shut off your lizard brain. BTW- communist revolutionaries can't fight for socialism without guns.
Mexicano said :
NC rebounds as expected. Yay!
People make money, people loose money.
And the worlds goes around and around.
thewhyisthewhat said :
dear state of North Carolina, WTF is going on?!
Bemused said :
True American, I'm aware of history, but your list of countries you fought in did not include any part of the Soviet Union. Maybe it's time you update your bogey man file--there are no communist countries, and never have been. Like the divine right of kings, communism was a justification for dictatorship.
Mexicano said :
Exactly 'thewhyisthewhat' NC wnet Dem earlier but for Prez it wnet 1+ for McCain on ABC at 93%... it will go red again!!!
4% to go, 2% partial... 20 minutes.
giz said :
What is it about healthcare. US citizens get less healthcare with more money than other western countries. Should that just mean that there are something really wrong.
Todd said :
Live chat - SportsTradingChatter.com
Mexicano said :
'Giz' It means that pharmaceutical and insurances companies along with $200+K/yr are making a killing on the market.
Super Obama will help out a bit but these guys have been going loco for a looong time.
NC is Dem, dunno why it is taking so long.
Mexicano said :
Arent yall happy Mrs Palin is outta the pic for VP n 2012/16!!!
That interview with the quebec gang was shameful... cashn out night night.
Peace be with yall.
YEAH said :
it is time for you dumb republicans get some reality check. OBAMA Rocks,
Mexicano said :
Buncombe 222,174 pop 89% white 7% black 1% asian, native pacific is, 3.7% hispanic 1.2% mixed...
Come on!!! 5K!!! easy money!!!
Mexicano said :
Reps are not dumb, they are just anachronically missinformed. Or brainwashed like Joe The Plumber. OK, they are dumb ;)
yeah said :
Palin can go back to Alaska n keep hunting more mooses for dinner or hang out with Joe the plummer for her new bff. hahahahahahaha, hahhahahahah, Damn she is so retarded.
Mexicano said :
Just for the record, IMHO Obamas win is not "The Black's" or "The African American's" win.
Obama is a JD Summa Cum Laude from Harvard, son of an immigrant. No obvious slave heritage.
Blacks can be proud but please dont over do it. Just like I may not be the typical mexican, Obama is not the typical brother.
This win is a win of the new and imporved US of A. Enjoy. Come on already NC!!!
Mexicano said :
Look at Missouri... its a rollercoaster... will it settle while people look at Ob's speech???
Palin2012 said :
Simply put, congrats to Obama. Just proves that money can buy elections as well as a "not guilty" verdict in a murder case.
Mexicano said :
One should study Missouri, North Carolina and Montana... I think these were technical calls in the end not fundamental.
Mexicano said :
Come on 'Palin1012', Ob had a lot of money to spare, but George W f* it up for old old MacCain... dontya think?
Then came Palin... and besides, the good ol USA has a different demographic mix... remember "its the economy st*pit"
How bad is it that mexicas are sending money from Mexico to their families in the US!!! :)
Money helped Ob but there is a LOT more to it.
yeah said :
Palin2012, just shut up and go joining with palin and keep hunting mooses with her maybe she will choose u to be her vp as well. GEt the fcking real already; you think American is going to vote Mss airhead for a president in 2012 are you that stupid or your mama dropped you when you were born? please, snap out of it already. Can you just look at the result of the election tonite and go getting some vodka for the nite already.
Mexicano said :
Ob can not change mankind's nature. All the greed, all the anger, all the fear, all the ignorance.
Fantastic speech though!
Go Bide!!! go Obama!!! Lets make the magic happen!!!
Mexicano said :
Is it too early to short on defense contractors??? :D
Palin2012 said :
Mexican:
I can agree that Obama is one charismatic individual. No taking that away from him. He is also a learned individual. However, to claim Palin is stupid is taking it to an extreme. You can't honestly say that the media wasn't against Sarah Palin from the second she was announced as the VP candidate. Don't underestimate her... To do so would be at your own peril (speaking electorally that is).
As for McCain losing b/c of Bush, that's also a misnomer. The problem is that people love to blame the President b/c he's in the public spot light 24/7. However, the Congress is where things were problematic. Who authorized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy up all of those loans and then later prevented reforms to such authorization, which is what has created this mess in the first place?
Blame it on who you like, but with a super majority, if things are worse in 4 years than they are today, then who are you going to blame? Bush still? Maybe McCain? Or will you admit that your candidate (and his party) failed...and failed miserably?
I hope it doesn't happen, but I seriously believe it will.
God help America... He knows we'll need it.
Palin2012 said :
Yeah:
Your personal attack only proves how uneducated you really are. Instead of attacking me, why don't you consider what your candidate actually is going to do. He'll sit down and talk 1 on 1 with a known terrorist (i.e., Iran's own Ahmadinejad). He'll raise taxes, regardless of what he claims (after all, look at his record). He also willingly sat in a church that had a pastor that espoused racist ideals, yet he didn't agree with them? Please, tell it to someone gullible. If you disagree with a leader, do you continue to follow that leader? No sane individual would.
Well, let's see what happens. Like I said, in 4 years, you can bet your bottom dollar that Obama's high price tag today will drop to sub Bush levels...and Palin's value will skyrocket. Mark it.
Moo said :
Yeah, Palin is dumb. She can't name a single national newspaper. All she has going for her are her good looks and now she also has the name recognition for the 2012 election. Given the deep economic shit that we're in now, it's not impossible that things will be worse than they are now in 4yrs regardless of who's in the white house. I hope that our new president can prevent that from happening but 4yrs may not be enough to fix 8 years of Bush's screw-ups.
Mexicano said :
Palin is not stupid relative to the average. But she was not careful and/or she was not coached well. She and her party payed for it.
I agree that they wen too far with Palin. But then again, she needed to be quite superior or the best, not just above average.
She was not. And that is a fact. She made an easy target during hunting season.
Old MacCain payed the bill for Bush. But the Bushes and their pals made enough money already so they didnt really care sho payed the bill :)
I agree, Ob picks up the country in a very difficult situation. But he can always blame the guy before him. It was after all his watch.
It is always difficult to blame legislatures, it is easy to point the finger to a building (capitol hill), but fact is, greed is the way America succeeds. And fails.
Greed and arrogance.
Ob has a chance to bring the world together (remember a lot of those investors were in fact foreigners).
GOOD! said :
It's about time that a President didn't act like a child when it's time for diplomacy. Giving someone the "silent treatement" is juvenile and has no place in an era of intellectual enlightenment.
It is quite myopic and juvenile to STILL cling to such proven inferior policy as "don't talk to terrorists."
And a big fat "whatever" to the rest of what you just wrote, Palin2012. I see you've been getting your Fox "News" in. Your support of such an unqualified candidate speaks volumes about YOUR ignorance...
yeah said :
Palin2012, uneducated? hahahah, i think you will see your picture, palin and joe the plummer right up there together. you need Jesus. lmfao. Loser
Palin2012 said :
Actually, check your sources. Republicans tend to be smarter than their Democratics contemporaries. Don't believe me, look it up. Look at the GOP entry in Wikipedia. Or try reading.
Palin2012 said :
Mexicano:
I can agree with you on part of your post. Palin did not come across as the PERFECT VP candidate...and McCain seriously needed his VP candidate to do exactly that.
As for the argument that it took 8 years to get us into this mess, you're wrong. It took us over 10 years. Remember, the economic problems we are dealing with today started early on during the Clinton administration...BEFORE the Republicans took over Congress. So...to claim that Bush did this is short-sighted and lacks real critical thinking.
Funny though how historians polled as recently as 2 months ago rated Bush43 as one of the top 10 US Presidents of all time (he ranked 10th).
yeah said :
could someone beats Palin2012 with a roomstick so the betch can snap out of it. The reason you dumb republicans lost tonite because all those nonsense brainwatched terrist sh*t and and joe the plummer crabs and here you are still talking about dumbsht. Are you on crack. your mama real dropped you when you were born. it must hit hard in the head.
Mexicano said :
I always remember... "if you are not an idealist (be it liberal or socialist) when young, you have no heart. if you are not a conservative when old, you have no brain".
I have to agree with you, P2012, the left is generally about ideals and sentiments not pragmatism or logic. Dems did their homework and played good demgraphics against old old anachronic republicans. Sorry, but look at the map up there.
My only dissagreement with you is that you pointed "money" as the cause, as if all of this could be bought with daddy's checkbook.
If you want to talk money, I believe Bushs pals have lots more money than Obama can ever think of.
Palin2012 said :
Good:
So Reagan bombing Momar Kadafi was a mistake? Standing up to Gorbachev and demanding that the Soviet Union tear down the Berlin wall was a mistake? Come on...you can't talk to someone who doesn't want to talk to you b/c they'd rather kill you instead. Be realistic for a moment.
Palin2012 said :
Yeah:
When you actually can learn to speak in a remotely educated manner, I'll gladly respond to you. Until that happens, I will no longer respond to your pathetic attempts at personal attacks. BTW, I'll happily keep my shotguns and revolvers fully loaded. And I welcome Obama's attempt to try and take them away.
In the mean time, you'd think that Obama supporters would be happy and wouldn't bother continuing to attack their foes that lost. Last I checked, Obama won. Why continue to attack Republicans? Oh...that's right...lack of education on your part. Got it. Nevermind.
As I said, when you talk sensibly, I'll be happy to reply...until then...get an education.
Palin2012 said :
Mexicano:
Well stated. When I talked about money buying this election, I meant that it was so one sided in who could raise money. After all, I'd have honestly been shocked if McCain won simply because of the difference in the amount of funds raised by the two candidates.
What I would like to see is true campaign reform: allow equal money to all candidates from all parties. No private fund raising. No public fund raising. Just split the pool overall and leave it to who can run the best campaign best. That way, money is no longer a factor.
Mexicano said :
As a foreigner I can talk about people who "hate" "america". Uncle Sam can be a pretty mean bastard when he travels abroad ;)
Palin2012 said :
Mexicano:
As a son of foreigners, I too know what and how the US can influence other countries. In some cases, it's a good thing. In others, it's horrible. What is most baffling is how we pick and choose where to help and what areas to ignore.
But here's a question: Why is Hollywood trying to raise money to help Darfur when that money could be better spent helping people here get jobs, healthcare, etc.??? So, is Hollywood merely out of touch, or is America simply ignoring those in need?
yeah said :
Palin2012, whatever! one word for you. LOOSER
Palin2012 said :
Yeah, your [lack of] education is telling. You really are a LOSER, but hey, that's because you're far looser at the lips. Congrats on showing us your true colors. :D
Mexicano said :
"campaign reform" ... there you go... those are good issues... and that is why we all have representatives to call and bug 365 days a year :)
I do not believe it is the office of The President who has to deal with that. But it wouldn't hurt if he pushed it a bit :)
I am not a republican and I love my guns. I don't shoot anyone nor I own automatic weapons. Shooting as a sport not the craziness that DOES exist in the US.
Problem with conservatives and republicans is that change happened out there, they just ignored the memo :)
The US is a country of institutions and check and balances, it is very difficult for anyone to change things for the worst by him(her)self.
Obama will do good if and only if the average american, be it a plumber or a neonazi, does good. And the US of A will do well when that neonazi or NRA member or average Joe goes to college and understands the world.
Mexicano said :
Hollywood IS out of touch with reality. They live in Disneyland or even better, in Bel Air :)
Private citizens can give ther money to whomever they want. Obama will make sure they help the U.S. keeping them in check.
But lets talk money. Money come to hollywood from abroad. Some of it goes to Dafur or to adopt babies from 3rd world countries.
I think it is only fair. I say Hollywood and other corporations should give more money back to foreign countries :)
As for education or health reform, the system has to be fixed and the rules need to be changed, sometimes it is not about money, it is about ideas, strategy and will.
Palin2012 said :
Mexicano:
Well said. I'm not into using my guns for anything except hunting and self-protection. I do not advocate violence, and only engage in it when all other options have been exhausted.
As for the President, it will be interesting to see where Obama takes this country in terms of relationships with other nations.
Palin2012 said :
I don't see anything wrong with healthcare per se. After all, all hospitals MUST treat anyone and everyone, whether they are citizens or not, whether they have insurance or not.
Simply put, if you want healthcare, you CAN get it. You can purchase insurance (if your employer doesn't supply it). It's a matter of choice. After all, if Universal healthcare was the answer, we wouldn't see so many Canadians (let alone other foreigners) coming to the US to have their surgeries, treatments, etc.
As for education, that is a different animal, in my view. Public schools have gotten a bad rap because...well...inner cities generally do poorly while suburban public schools do far better. So, the question will be...what do you do? Force suburban schools into accepting urban students? How will those students get there? Obviously paying inner city teachers more money has NOT produced better educated students.
My solution on education? This is where Europe does a better job. Make the school system a year round style. However, transform the system so it operates more like colleges and universities. Allow parents and students to decide what classes to take, when, etc. If a student in 1st grade excels at math, why hold him/her back???
As such, I'd compromise by combining that two ideas: year-round school with choices. How do we do it? Make schools (like colleges and universities do currently) compete for the students. If you want parents to send their kids to your school, give them a reason. This way, kids don't experience the normal drop off in transitioning between one grade to the next.
As for Hollywood and paying back those foreign investors...why? They made their money by investing here in the first place. If I invest in Grupe, S.A. de C.V., and its stock goes up, then I have made money. I need not require Mexicans nor Mexico to pay me on top of that.
Ah well...it's getting late and time for me to go to bed. Have a long day ahead of me (9am to 7pm). Well...good night...and God bless.
yeah said :
Palin2012, shut the fck up. stop talking you dumb fck. go and sit on a beer bottle so you can feel better. you think you people are smart yet you damn republicans fcked this country for the last 8yrs and elected a most dumbass republican president ever. can u wake up and smell my ass and do a reality ck already. gosh go stick your head into a cow ass already. good nite betch. should i get you a trailer and keep you there for the next 8yrs. Get over it and deal with it, you dumb palin suppoter. lmfao
kudos said :
Ahhh, the myth of the Canadian healthcare refugee lives on. You wouldn't see them because they don't really exist. On the other hand, Americans actually do go to Canada because the retail cost for medical care in Canada is far less than what an uninsured or underinsured person would have to pay in the U.S.
? said :
Actually my Grandma did come to the U.S. from Canada to get cancer treatment, and I have never heard of it going the other way around.
CITIZEN said :
I AM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN AGAIN.
Canadian said :
Canada has really good heathcare so people dont come from there to here.Also they have less people there so less people come. and canadians never come here its only rich weirdos and people with cancer who cant wait in the emergency room for 3 hours.
Moo said :
I have family in Canada and they always complain how they can't get an appt. with a specialist for weeks, sometimes months. I think that needs to improve. So what happens with NC, IN and MO now? Will those electoral votes be included in the final results bringing the numbers to 364/174 or was the race too close in those states?
Christian said :
Yes we do wait sometimes to see a specialist in Canada. I have live in many countries and health care is always a difficult thing to manage because of complexity and expenses. Every country must find its own compromise between cost and inclusiveness to fit their collective needs (and conscience). The problem with the US system as I see it is that it has got very high cost and very poor inclusiveness... In this respect it is rather poor.
friarphuk said :
Obama is now President elect. Support him. If you don't, you are neither a 'True American(tm)', nor a patriot. As we have so often heard in the Bush years.
So there. The tides just turned.
Moo said :
Unfortunately most Republicans will wait for him to fail instead of helping him succeed. If something doesn't work once he takes the office, blame the black guy. I can already see it.
helo said :
Your damn right were gonna blame the black guy if this country falls apart. Our president is black right?
Who's Next? said :
Posted 06:56 AM EST on 11/05/2008
316.
CITIZEN said :
I AM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN AGAIN.
However, I am proud to be an American still.
Nancy Brumback said :
Now we will see about the socialism and the redistribution of wealth and all that other ultra-right crap that McCain-Palin have dumped on Obama, just because he wants the upper 5% to pay a little more tax. Ridiculous! Palin especially is so ignorant she wouldn't recognize socialism if it hit her in the face. But that is their game plan, to scare the living daylights out of people, and try to make everyone else as ignorant as they are. Thank God they lost. I am counting the days until Bush the Ignoramus in Chief is gone too. The thing is, some of the very wealthy realize they should pay a little more, like Warren Buffett who once said that he pays a lower percentage than his secretary. Now how is that right? If McCain has a plan, let him go back to congress and introduce it. If he knows how to "get bin Laden," let him tell Obama and the commanders already.
Just Visiting said :
WOW! There surely is a lot of scary stuff in these posts: vituperation, foul language, intolerance, closed mindedness, and just plain hate - the worst of it (except for btknows) from the supposedly intelligent and soft hearted liberals. All very scary, but the scariest is how truly uninformed the posters are and how uneducated: few can spell, use language and grammar correctly, or punctuate a sentence. Poles apart from each other in their views, each one is convinced he/she is right. But how can that be? America needn't fear McCain, Obama, or the current Administration. Its biggest threat is its uninformed and irrational populace which has to descend to craziness and gutter language to make its point.
I see that the market likes the election results so well that it's down close to 500 points. On the bright side, Michelle gets to be proud of her country for the second time in her life. Sorry, I couldn't resist that, since we're all so patriotic all of a sudden.)
Enlightened prole said :
That was a very well articulated posting brought to us by Just Visiting. I am in complete agreement. However, I deeply wish people would stop associating the word liberal with democrats. A liberal is someone whom supports liberty, i.e. personal freedom. Therefore, a democrat is not a liberal for they have always sought regulation alongside tax and spend policies.
Just Visiting said :
Exactly! Democrats are liberal as it applies to civil liberties as they define them and to taxing and spending to support their (liberal) social welfare programs. And yes, they do want to regulate public and business institutions such as corporations, law and order agencies, and gov't in order to further those liberal programs. I would question, however, whether those social programs when taken to extremes don't actually rob us of our liberty. In the end, the term is used as it's come to be defined in order to avoid misunderstanding and to ease communication.
Enlightened prole said :
You are correct in all aspects of your analysis, including the fact that this definition is now widely accepted and even formal. However, this is the very fact that I am outraged by. Our media has taken a word that has meant; as to and pertaining to freedom for all it's existence and in an Orwellian fashion redefined it into a term describing a democrat. Can you say Newspeak?
Mr. Nuance said :
There are articulate and inarticulate voices who speak from every political ideology. Neither "Conservatives" nor "Liberals" can lay claim to freedom from ignorance, intolerance or idealogue. Using "liberal" and "conservative" as political pejoratives has become so commonplace as to render these labels meaningless. In a larger sense, Americans are all liberals since we all ascribe to the "liberal" political ideals of representative government, individual liberties, and economic opportunity. It will not be easy, but I am hopeful that we might remember that we all want these same things, and that Obama's presidency will encourage Democrats, Republicans and Independents to find ways to work together, rather than simply engage in the divisive politics of the past eight or more years.
Enlightened prole said :
I'm afraid you have made an error in your analysis. Americans may (and I stress may) all want the same thing, but it is very obvious that they don't agree on how to pursue these common goals, if they exist. In addition, we are certainly not "all" liberals. I will slow it down for those of us having trouble keeping up! Liberal in its truest sense is something that is pertaining to FREEDOM. Anyone whom supports any type of perpetual welfare system that by it's very nature requires a central agency for confiscation and redistribution is not a LIBERAL!!!
NCGuy said :
I am sick of people laying the blame for partisanship at the feet of GW Bush. It takes two to work together and only one to be divisive. From what I've seen, the democrats take at least as much blame for partisanship?
PhilB said :
Um, maybe for the last 2 years. But before that, lest we all forget, the GOP had the president and congress and was able to move forward with REPUBLICAN plans. It had broken the Democratic party, remember? We were all to be treated to a glorious Republican 21st Century? Well, those plans turned sour fast. Sorry, you can't blame the dems for more than 25%.
Just Visiting said :
This discussion has gotten interesting....
If one looks back thru history, it will be obvious very quickly that every time the Democrats were in the majority in congress, they froze Republicans out of the process. Compare their record in that regard to that of the Republicans when they were in power. They weren't perfect, but their record is considerably better. The responsibility for the resultant climate of today lies at the Democrats' feet. I wish that would change, but I don't think it will. The Democrats seem to feel that they somehow are entitled to be in power all the time and become outraged when they're not. The virulence of that outrage can be traced back to the Wellstone funeral, though the roots reach further back.
Wow said :
Wow, Just Visiting, that is the most delusional, unfounded piece of drivel I have ready in a long time. You make an outlandish sweeping statement like that with zero proof. I'd be intrigued to see you back that up with anything remotely like evidence.
Just Visiting said :
Ad hominem attacks don't solve anything. They just feed the virulence I decried. If you're intersted in proof, look it up yourself. It is your job alone to keep yourself informed, not mune or anyone else's. All you have to do is Google congressional records on both sides and analytical articles based on summations of those records. Ditto for the facts of what went on at the Wellstone funeral. I assume you can figure out what the keywords might be. In the meantime, chill.
Moo said :
@Just Visiting:
You complained about the foul language and the intolerance in this thread. Kindly take a look at the following article and the the comments below (mainly from disgruntled republicans):
http://townhall.com/columnists/DavidLimbaugh/2008/11/04/sorry,_but_obama_scares_me?page=full&comments=true#comments
MJGPTBG said :
How can any sane person conclude that it is the Democrats who shut out the Republicans? Not only did the Bush administration not even bother to listen to Democrats, they were arrogant about their ability to rule alone and their ability to tell any lie they wanted and people would still believe it. They even sent their moronic trolls out to talk about "tree huggers" and "tin foil hats" and stuff like that. The smugness that Rovian lies would triumph forever was palpable. They were actually proud that it took a slimer-liar to win elections for them, because they had found the perfect slimer-liar and they paid him well to cook up crapola.
Their arrogance about being able to bamboozle the less informed voters into voting against their own best interests, THAT is a real stomach turner. It was joke to them that they were able to use people's faith against them by twisting the truth about opponents and pretending that they are the only ones with God on speed dial and vice versa.
And that family values crapola...at the same time they ran candidates who dumped wives for younger models and who tried to punch their own fathers they were pretending that they were the ones who value families (at the same time they sent sons and daughters to risk their lies in a war based on lies.
Let's hope that voters are now too sophisticated to fall for that kind of baloney.
If Republicans are worried now about what to do to reclaim their decency, I'll be very surprised. Their real problem is that their jig is up.
What must Bridget McCain think when she sees her father embracing on a public stage the man who slimed her? Turns out she googled her own name and found THAT particular ugly scenario. And what must she think nowadays at the efforts of her father's campaign to slime a black candidate? Family vaues, indeed!
Just Visiting said :
Moo—
I took your advice and read the article you cited, along with the first 20 posts (no time for more than that – I do have to get some work done) and I can offer 2 observations. If you read all my posts, you saw that I decried extremism and lack of civility no matter the source or the political philosophy behind them. Secondly, the great majority of those first 20 posts were civil and generally thoughtful statements, though most were based on incomplete information. Many were critical of Republicans as well as Democrats, none were backbiting, vicious, or plain upchucks of venom as are the earlier posts on this Intrade site. Reply #1 was pretty darn gracious in view of the feelings of the poster. I have no reason to believe that these first 20 are not representative of them all.
As for MJGPTBG’s post (#337), it is so full of misconceptions (and I’d bet s/he knows it) that it would take all day to sort out. None of the content is supportable by documentation, and the manner in which it’s said makes my argument for me. Ergo, my job here is done, and my visit is, too. May whatever Force you believe in be with you and with the USA.
Moo said :
I guess you won't be reading this since you're done with this thread and you need to get some work done but you talk about statements based on incomplete information while you read only 20 comments (out of over 600). I do agree that Reply #1 was very civil even if the argument contained within it doesn't hold any water.
Bambina said :
Obama! my inspiration...
Nebraska is Wrong said :
Obama has 1 electoral vote from the second district.
Al said :
Obama will the one of the best President in US History, mark my word.
simply put said :
this is really cool. mad props to intrade.
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Mister Maggo said :
I just found this site after hearing them speak about it on CNN, commenting on the Oscar pedictions. Pretty cool site.
As far as the election is concerned, I'm just glad that the Conservatives lost. They controlled it all for nearly 8 years and have managed to run the entire country into the ground. So much much for "trickle down" economics and "might makes right". Many of the people that voted for "W" twice are now losing their jobs and potentially their homes. Those flag wavers and cross burners are getting exactly what they deserve!
Everyone needs to check out the HBO special this month called "The rightwing feeling wronged". It shows the true nature of right wing middle America. Pretty shocking to say the least!
Anyway,keep up the good work "FiveThirtyEight"...
PoliticalEconomist said :
The magical night was SO magical, shamanic I'd say, with intrade help. I knew of intrade because, in our profession, on predictor markets there is a precise theory and a lot of experience, showing that it works better than alternatives (namely polls), provided it has critical mass (this is why one should look carefully at "volumes" in our market transactions here).
On the basis of the CORRECT (perhaps one of the best, I don't know) definition of "swing states" given day before by intrade, I had a frame (a classification of States) where to put all the results. I knew Obama won a few hours before the semi-official CNN declaration. Only 1 h, before CNN, Italian Agency ANSA made the first worldwide "outing" (just because its Director was a former US correspondent, and knew about). I knew it already a couple of hours before ANSA, with a min. margin of uncertainty, thet quickly faded away. I never enjoyed, in decades, a US electoral night as this one. Thanks intrade and Obama ...
Magoo is an idiot said :
#347 Mr. Magoo vomited:
"As far as the election is concerned, I'm just glad that the Conservatives lost. They controlled it all for nearly 8 years and have managed to run the entire country into the ground. So much much for "trickle down" economics and "might makes right". Many of the people that voted for "W" twice are now losing their jobs and potentially their homes. Those flag wavers and cross burners are getting exactly what they deserve!"
Magoo - did your mother drop you on your head to make you so unforgivably stupid and bigoted? It is one thing to be misinformed, but you have a malignancy in your soul that makes you unworthy of oxygen. Does it bother you to know that President Bush gave far more aid to Africa than any previous administration including those of democrats? That he kept your dumb ass from being killed by a terrorist for eight years? That he inherited a recession, but kept you employed for most of that eight years? That he put the needs of his country before his desire to be popular - unlike the man he replaced? If you had a quintilla of decency in your greasy liberal body, you would at least acknowledge that you are a clueless idiot if not outright evil. Get on your knees and beg conservatives to forgive you before your blundering hero puts them all in concentration camps for daring to think for themselves and not depend on a government handout.
Response to #349 said :
I'm not "Maggo" or "Magoo" but for all your critiques, sir, your post is equally hateful and misinformed.
Your views come from a stilted perception that national security and personal safety supercedes all other foundations our country is built upon. Benjamin Franklin once said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Taking an iron fist toward domestic and foreign policy is NOT admirable - these are NOT the principles our founding fathers embraced. Being popular is not part of the job description to be President, but Bush defied the very tenets of our Constitution through his "security" measures - and that IS the job description. To sacrifice those values and put those moves under the guise of "patriotic" is treasonous, at best. By virtue of "securing" our country, we have destroyed the ideals that make us what we are! It surprises me that conservatives/traditionalists only want to cite the Constitution when it serves their motives at the time.
As for Bush and Africa, it is true that he broke records in terms of amounts of money. But does money solve the problem if it's spent unwisely? Our programs in Africa shifted from a pragmatic "control the epidemic with condoms" to the unrealistic "abstinence only." Not only is unreleastic, but it gives creedence to the African tribal remedies that preach against condom use. And at the end of it - have we seen any drop in the AIDS epidemic? No.
Not only did Bush's faith-based programs stop promoting condoms, but actually decreased condom availability. As an American you may think it's common sense and people would use them anyway, but in Africa tall tales still win out - people grow up believing that washing yourself with Coca-cola or hanging upside-down will prevent you from being infected. Neither abstinence nor condoms will kill the myths, but at least condoms will protect those who do engage in relations (which is a majority of people, after all).
P.S. And if liberals are so dependent on "government handouts" then why are they the political ideology that has the highest average income?
P.P.S. Still waiting on those concentration camps...
James_Aragon said :
It offends me that any aid is given to anybody. It offends me to pay taxes.
Freedom126 said :
I'm so glad we are giving aid to Haiti. I would even agree to a hike in my taxes to give more.
SpringerRider said :
>>Posted 12:02 PM EST on 11/05/2008 168.friarphuk said :
>>
>> Obama is now President elect. Support him. If you don't, you are neither a 'True >>American(tm)', nor a patriot. As we have so often heard in the Bush years.
>>
>>So there. The tides just turned.
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa How is that hope and change working out for you?
Knight769 said :
Freedom126, if you feel that you would be willing to give up more of your taxes to Haiti then donate more money. But do not tell me that I have to pay more taxes for Haiti. No, it is not your place to be dictating a tax to me because it makes you feel good. The bext type of donation is the private one. The one done without government strong arming everyone. I gave $100 to Haiti because I wanted to. That is the way it should be. Government stay out of my life please!
spade said :
we have one but problems still lie ahead for all of us dont take anything light for now all is well but we all know the results from well things dem go forward reform
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